FreeBSD and OSX applications

Discussion:

Rod Person

2003-07-29 23:33:49 UTC

Today I went to an Adobe seminar. All demos where done on OS X. I kept think that it looked a lot like KDE and of course I got to thinking...

Can applications such as Acrobat and Illustrator run on FreeBSD? Since OS X userland is based on FreeBSD it seemed to me there should be a chance of it, is there? I'm think these would not be as hard, but do to the MACH kernel on OS X, I'm not sure. Does anyone know? I also wonder if this would work with Darwin either. But the last I tried Darwin it would not run on my hardware. I'm I just crazy or is there a chance of this?

I also wonder is there a OS X emulator anywhere in the works or future?

--
Rod

@ Home So No Cool Signature
http://opensourcebeef.bsd.st

Erik Trulsson

2003-07-30 00:45:53 UTC

Permalink

No.

Post by Rod Person
Since OS X userland is based on FreeBSD it seemed to me there should
be a chance of it, is there? I'm think these would not be as hard,
but do to the MACH kernel on MacOS X, I'm not sure. Does anyone know? I

The kernel is not the big problem. From a program's point of view there
is not much difference between the kernels even though they might be
quite different internally.
Some parts of OS X userland are taken from FreeBSD, but not all of it.
In particular most of the GUI code is MacOS X specific and *not*
available on FreeBSD. Programs which use the OS X specific stuff will
not run on anything else.

Post by Rod Person
also wonder if this would work with Darwin either. But the last I
tried Darwin it would not run on my hardware. I'm I just crazy or is
there a chance of this?

I am not sure what ypu are asking about here. Chance of what?

Darwin is essentially a self-contained open source subset of OS X, and
is fairly similar to any other BSD based OS. Many programs for MacOS X
uses features and libraries that are only available in the full MacOS X,
and not in the Darwin subset. To run those programs you need to run
the full MacOS X.

Post by Rod Person
I also wonder is there a OS X emulator anywhere in the works or future?

None that I know of. Such an emulator would probably be a quite large
project and would likely take a long time to complete. (Compare the
Wine windows emulator which has existed for several years and still has
many limitations. Mac OS X would probably be easier to emulate but
still far from trivial.)

--
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
***@student.uu.se

Lucas Holt

2003-07-30 00:56:30 UTC

Permalink

KDE is a window manager for x windows.. there is a big difference
between x windows and mac os x's window manager.

To emulate it, you would need to recreate Quartz, Quartz extreme, apple
web kit, cocoa libraries designed for os X, etc. In fact it would be
like writing a more complicated next Emulator. Aside from that, Apple
would probably file a lawsuit.

Just do the sensible thing and buy a Macintosh if you want Mac OS X. I
use Mac OS X as a client and have a freebsd server for my websites. It
makes a great combination.

Post by Rod Person
Today I went to an Adobe seminar. All demos where done on OS X. I kept
think that it looked a lot like KDE and of course I got to thinking...
Can applications such as Acrobat and Illustrator run on FreeBSD? Since
OS X userland is based on FreeBSD it seemed to me there should be a
chance of it, is there? I'm think these would not be as hard, but do
to the MACH kernel on OS X, I'm not sure. Does anyone know? I also
wonder if this would work with Darwin either. But the last I tried
Darwin it would not run on my hardware. I'm I just crazy or is there a
chance of this?
I also wonder is there a OS X emulator anywhere in the works or future?
--
Rod
@ Home So No Cool Signature
http://opensourcebeef.bsd.st
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Lucas Holt
***@FoolishGames.com
________________________________________________________
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and
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- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC

2003-07-30 01:42:09 UTC

Permalink

Raphaël Marmier

2003-07-30 10:11:58 UTC

Permalink

While I'm at it, It has to be pointed out that native MacOSX apps don't
necessary make calls to Quartz directly. (Only graphically intensive
apps should make such call for specific reasons) Most standard GUI
applications can be built using only the Cocoa Frameworks.

Beside, on the compatibility side, most applications for the Macintosh
are only partially ported from MacOS9, using a compatibility library
called Carbon. This is the case for most Adobe Apps. To run the, you
would need a clone of the Carbon lib, plus whatever other stuff is
hiding behind...

Raphael

Also an happy OSX station/FreeBSD sever user ;)

Le Mercredi, 30 juil 2003, à 03:42 Europe/Zurich, Chad Leigh --

Post by Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC

Of course, there is the problem of CPUs. FreeBSD is x86 (and alpha)
(for now) and OS X is a PPC processor. So besides all the libraries
and stuff like Quartz that you would need to emulate, you would need
to emulate the CPU
Chad
also an OSX client/FreeBSD server user
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Raphaël Marmier

2003-07-30 10:04:22 UTC

Permalink

MacOSX applications need both specific libraries (based on the
Openstep/Cocoa API) and a specific runtime system that runs objective-C
based apps. While the API is open, the libraries (called frameworks)
and the runtime are proprietaty.

Furthermore, these binaries are compiled for the PowerPC architecture.
You cannot run them without emulating that hardware, unless you port
FreeBSD to the PPC architecture.

Slightly off-topic, there is actually a port of the OpenStep API (and
its runtime) to unix called GnuStep (www.gnustep.org) It aims at
recreating the NeXT environment on unix systems. You can basically
build program for both unix/gnustep and MacOSX from the same code, as
long as you use features present in both (which is the case for
standard Cocoa frameworks). Of course, if you try using Apple
specific/proprietary API, you can't, at least not unless providing a
replacement for them, which should be quite feasible if you have
equivalent C libs on unix.

A good exemple is the GnuMail application, which runs on both from the
same code base.

Raphaël

M***@gmx.de

2003-07-30 12:18:55 UTC

Permalink

Maybe also interessting: There is "MacOnLinux" ( http://www.maconlinux.org/
) which lets you run MacOS (even MacOS X!) on a PPC-based Linux-computer. But
from the FAQ:

Q: Does it run on i386 hardware?
A: No, MOL can only run on PowerPC hardware since no emulation is performed.
However, adding a PowerPC emulator for x86 is under consideration.

maybe it will be proted to FreeBSD then :)

The cool thing is, that you don't need genuine apple hardware, it runs on
nearly any PPC. And PPC604e's are cheap.

But as Darwin is OpenSource there is also a way (not from apple!!!) that
allows you to run OS X on a non-G3/G4/G5 mac. Unfortunately I don't have a link
here.. sorry.

In both cases, don't expect it to be fast. But it's a good way to get hands
on OS X for only a few bucks ;)

and..
add me to the OS X-Client/FreeBSD-Server ppl :)
--
Peace,

Matthias "LoCal" Schonder
------------------------------
You can kill the revolutionary
but you can't kill the revolution!

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