Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?

[Jorge Biquez]

Hello all.

I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I
know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most
powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and
that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a
nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main
machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running
under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development.

My idea is to buy it with FreeDos or Linux installed or without
operating system but here there is not an option for powerful
equuipment unless you want one with Atom processor. The powerful one
came ONLY with Windows installed.
I am thinking to ask a friend that travels frequently to USA to buy one for me.

Any suggestion of where and what equipment to buy, without OS
(Windows) preinstalled? Of course at a good price and the most powerful one.

Thanks in advance.

Jorge Biquez

[Chuck Swiger]

Hola, Jorge--

I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development.

You have some choices:

1) Find a vendor offering to sell a machine with Linux preinstalled.
At times in the past, IIRC, both HP and Dell used to do this.

2) Call up a sales guy from your preferred vendor and ask to purchase a bare machine without OS.
If they refuse to sell you one, choose another vendor.

3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund.
Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done.

Regards,

[Chip Camden]

Post by Chuck Swiger
Hola, Jorge--

I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development.

1) Find a vendor offering to sell a machine with Linux preinstalled.
At times in the past, IIRC, both HP and Dell used to do this.
2) Call up a sales guy from your preferred vendor and ask to purchase a bare machine without OS.
If they refuse to sell you one, choose another vendor.
3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund.
Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done.
Regards,
--
-Chuck
_______________________________________________
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions

Until Konstantin gets his work on GEM finished, don't buy anything that
uses the Intel Ironlake graphics chip (usually called simply "Intel
Integrated HD Graphics"). The Intel driver for Xorg won't work, and
you'll be limited to vesa at 1024x768. Others on this list may perhaps
be able to recommend their favorite graphics option.

[Brian Callahan]

Post by Chuck Swiger
3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund.
  Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done.

IANAL, but I have been informed by several lawyers that you cannot do
this. The Windows 7 EULA, when preinstalled on a machine, states that
the agreement is between you and the company selling you the computer,
and "By using the Software, you accept these terms. If you do not
accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the
manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must
comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you
to return the entire system on which the software is installed."

The major OEMs will say "OK, then you must return the computer," and
you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA.

If you want no-OS laptops, try Puget Systems www.pugetsystems.com or
PCs for Everyone www.pcsforeveryone.com

HTH

~Brian

[Chip Camden]

Post by Brian Callahan

Post by Chuck Swiger
3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund.
  Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done.

IANAL, but I have been informed by several lawyers that you cannot do
this. The Windows 7 EULA, when preinstalled on a machine, states that
the agreement is between you and the company selling you the computer,
and "By using the Software, you accept these terms. If you do not
accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the
manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must
comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you
to return the entire system on which the software is installed."
The major OEMs will say "OK, then you must return the computer," and
you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA.
If you want no-OS laptops, try Puget Systems www.pugetsystems.com or
PCs for Everyone www.pcsforeveryone.com
HTH
~Brian
_______________________________________________
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions

Those links both sport some pretty expensive prices. My comparable ASUS
cost about half that, and came with Windows 7 installed (which I simply
erased). Are those prices for real?

[Brian Callahan]

Those links both sport some pretty expensive prices.  My comparable ASUS
cost about half that, and came with Windows 7 installed (which I simply
erased).  Are those prices for real?
--
http://chipsquips.com  | http://camdensoftware.com   | http://chipstips.com

Oh, I have no doubt they're for real. That's the problem with smaller
OEMs. You can't live on razor thin profit margins.

ZaReason www.zareason.com also has no-OS options (they're a Linux
vendor). Again, prices aren't the cheapest.

I personally buy my laptops by going to Staples, Circuit City, Best
Buy, etc. with the latest OpenBSD-current to check its dmesg (and I
highly recommend this) and blasting Windows off the HD as soon as I
get home, but the OP asked for no-OS laptops.

~Brian

[Julian H. Stacey]

Post by Brian Callahan
The major OEMs will say "OK, then you must return the computer," and
you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA.

192 sovereign countries exist with differing laws.
Licenses I've seen from usually USA companies in Europe over
decades have often seemed to contravene local law. USA allows
more restrictions I believe: reverse engineering & unbundling of
soft+hardware bundles etc is OK in Europe I think. A British
appeals court test case in '80s ruled against NCP: Conditions
available after purchase are void.

One would need an M$ licence to run M$, but if it held clauses
that eg forbade running under emulation, or on replacement hardware,
those could contravene some local law & if so be void. M$ was
heavily fined by European court a while back (Search with "Microsoft
convicted monopolist") I woudn't expect happy compliance.

Reality:
XP purchased with a Toshiba laptop runs native, but fails on
virtualbox, on the same laptop. I believe XP is crippled to only
run on Toshiba, & vbox presents too clean/generic an environment ;-)

Cheers,
Julian

[David Brodbeck]

 XP purchased with a Toshiba laptop runs native, but fails on
 virtualbox, on the same laptop.  I believe XP is crippled to only
 run on Toshiba, & vbox presents too clean/generic an environment ;-)

Sometimes there can be activation issues with OEM versions of Windows
XP. They're usually keyed to the manufacturer's BIOS.

[Polytropon]

Post by David Brodbeck
Sometimes there can be activation issues with OEM versions of Windows
XP. They're usually keyed to the manufacturer's BIOS.

Not a problem anymore - after 2014. :-)

[Polytropon]

Post by Brian Callahan
IANAL, but I have been informed by several lawyers that you cannot do
this. The Windows 7 EULA, when preinstalled on a machine, states that
the agreement is between you and the company selling you the computer,
and "By using the Software, you accept these terms. If you do not
accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the
manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must
comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you
to return the entire system on which the software is installed."
The major OEMs will say "OK, then you must return the computer," and
you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA.

Erm... and this is NOT a joke? Don't get me wrong, I had a
good laugh about this... agreement... but nothing is too
absurd to be true.

In this specific context, does booting a FreeBSD and removing
the "Windows" from the disk is equivalent to "using the soft-
ware"? If I understand it correctly, "using" relates to the
software, not the hardware.

(Yes, I already understood the strange concept that by
purchasing a "Windows", either by a shiny package or as
preinstalled part of a bundle with PC hardware, you do
not own it, you're not allow to do with it as you please,
instead you rent a limited right to just "use" it under
certain circumstances and terms.)

[i***@gmail.com]

Post by Jorge Biquez
Hello all.
I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know
in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful
ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the
value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be
Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux
or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly
for web development.
My idea is to buy it with FreeDos or Linux installed or without operating
system but here there is not an option for powerful equuipment unless you
want one with Atom processor. The powerful one came ONLY with Windows
installed.
I am thinking to ask a friend that travels frequently to USA to buy one for me.
Any suggestion of where and what equipment to buy, without OS (Windows)
preinstalled? Of course at a good price and the most powerful one.

ixsystems.com sells a FreeBSD laptop (probably not
inexpensively).

system76.com is ubunutu-based, so you might have
to look closely at the wireless chip.

That one e-online-dot-com internet web store named after
a certain large, South-American river has a few of such
for sale, as well.

I'd buy one with Microsoft® Windows® Starter® Edition®
and amuse myself by applying to the seller for a Microsoft®
Windows® Starter® Edition® Refund® (& depending on where
you live might provide _months_ of entertainment).

Actually, new is too expensive for me: let someone else take
the first price hit.

[David Brodbeck]

I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know
in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful
ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the
value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be
Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux
or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly
for web development.

Just to play devil's advocate:

If you plan to run Windows under VirtualBox, you probably *do* want to
order the laptop with Windows pre-installed. The reason is to legally
run Windows in VirtualBox, you will need a Windows license, and it's
far cheaper to get one bundled with the machine than to buy it later.

[Charlie Kester]

Post by Jorge Biquez
Hello all.
I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I
know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most
powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and
that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a
nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main
machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running
under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development.
My idea is to buy it with FreeDos or Linux installed or without
operating system but here there is not an option for powerful
equuipment unless you want one with Atom processor. The powerful one
came ONLY with Windows installed.
I am thinking to ask a friend that travels frequently to USA to buy one for me.
Any suggestion of where and what equipment to buy, without OS (Windows)
preinstalled? Of course at a good price and the most powerful one.

Does it have to be new?

The best deal might be to get a used laptop. Then it doesn't matter
what it originally shipped with, all you care about is whether it's on
the FreeBSD hardware compatibility list.

Along these lines, I've seen many people recommending used ThinkPads.
Might not be powerful enough for the latest Windows, but more than
capable for running a BSD.

[Chad Perrin]

Post by Charlie Kester
Does it have to be new?
The best deal might be to get a used laptop. Then it doesn't matter
what it originally shipped with, all you care about is whether it's on
the FreeBSD hardware compatibility list.
Along these lines, I've seen many people recommending used ThinkPads.
Might not be powerful enough for the latest Windows, but more than
capable for running a BSD.

Be very careful buying used laptops. There are a lot of refurbishers who
are very shady, and a lot of private sellers online that are trying to
make a fast buck off broken hardware.

In fact, I wrote some code for a shady refurbisher last year to clean
infections of their laptops -- infections that had worked its way into
the images they used to clone drives for refurbished computers. I think
thousands of their systems probably went out infected before they had me
automate the virus-cleaning process for them.

The short version is simply that I've seen how shady refurbishers work,
up close and personal. Let the buyer beware.

[Jorge Biquez]

Post by Chad Perrin

Post by Charlie Kester
Does it have to be new?
The best deal might be to get a used laptop. Then it doesn't matter
what it originally shipped with, all you care about is whether it's on
the FreeBSD hardware compatibility list.
Along these lines, I've seen many people recommending used ThinkPads.
Might not be powerful enough for the latest Windows, but more than
capable for running a BSD.

Be very careful buying used laptops. There are a lot of refurbishers who
are very shady, and a lot of private sellers online that are trying to
make a fast buck off broken hardware.
In fact, I wrote some code for a shady refurbisher last year to clean
infections of their laptops -- infections that had worked its way into
the images they used to clone drives for refurbished computers. I think
thousands of their systems probably went out infected before they had me
automate the virus-cleaning process for them.
The short version is simply that I've seen how shady refurbishers work,
up close and personal. Let the buyer beware.
--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]

Hello all.

Thanks a lot for your comments. Just doing a little more research,
you can not find powerful equipment, at least here, with other OS but
Windows 7, and of course cost more. Here it does not matter if you
say that I won't use Windows 7, you pay for it and no refund. All
the powerful ones come with Windows 7 HP or Windows 7 Pro, No starter
versions, so you pay for it if you want it or not. Last chance is to
try Dell, will see later.
I guess my best bet is top have a used one. Is not that it "has" to
be new but I wanted to invest in something new that last some years,
my last lap has 7 years but it is short on memory and won't accept more.
I will use ebay I guess for used equipment and ask my friend to bring
it if possible. If you have good suggestions for places to buy used
equipment please let me know (on ebay I has bought in the past
equipment that was dead already or that has problems immediately
later). Of course sometimes I have bought very good equipment also.

Thanks to all for the comments and your time.
Jorge Biquez

[Chad Perrin]

Post by Jorge Biquez
I guess my best bet is top have a used one. Is not that it "has" to
be new but I wanted to invest in something new that last some years,
my last lap has 7 years but it is short on memory and won't accept more.
I will use ebay I guess for used equipment and ask my friend to bring
it if possible. If you have good suggestions for places to buy used
equipment please let me know (on ebay I has bought in the past
equipment that was dead already or that has problems immediately
later). Of course sometimes I have bought very good equipment also.

In my experience, ThinkPads are among the highest quality laptops on the
market. I keep an eye out for notable drops in quality, in case things
change, but so far they are still easily the best new laptops for general
use, where their configurations are suitable to one's needs (as opposed
to cases where a Toughbook might be more appropriate, for instance).
They have some of the best keyboards for touch-typing on the market, too,
even including high-quality keyboard peripherals for desktop systems.

You could try getting in touch with someone at Lenovo about ordering a
laptop with no MS Windows license. I seem to recall hearing that's an
option, or at least was an option at one time, but I have not really
investigated it. You can also check Lenovo's "outlet" for prebuilt
ThinkPads that suit your needs, put together for someone else's order
that got canceled; they discount these laptops, even though they have
never even been shipped to a customer. They also have laptops that were
shipped and returned unopened, returned opened, and refurbished, for
varying levels of discount and newness. Of course, the "outlet"
ThinkPads come with MS Windows, but you at least get a discount greater
than the markup for the Windows license that way. Be aware that the
"outlet" sales are more prone to errors, though, as my girlfriend
discovered when she bought an unshipped, prebuilt ThinkPad a couple years
ago that had a license sticker and an installed MS Windows version that
did not match. She just wanted to run something Unix-like on it, so it
was not a big problem, but we found the mistake somewhat interesting.

. . . and, of course, be aware that if you get a laptop with Intel HD
Graphics, you'll be stuck with the vesa driver at 1024x768 on FreeBSD at
least until Konstantin's work fixes the problem with the Intel drivers.
Be careful about the hardware in your laptop, whatever brand you get, so
you'll be sure to get the best FreeBSD user experience reasonably
possible.

[Robert Huff]

Post by Chad Perrin
In my experience, ThinkPads are among the highest quality laptops
on the market.

At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were
_the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i
looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went
downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division.


Robert Huff

[John Levine]

Post by Robert Huff
At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were
_the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i
looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went
downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division.

I'm typing this on my Lenovo X200 running 8.1. For the most part it
works quite well and the quality seems similar to my previous IBM X40.

The worst annoyance is that the sound volume is quite low, and I
haven't yet figured out what to tweak to fix that. It has bluetooth
and a fingerprint reader, neither of which I've set up, mostly out of
lack of interest.

R's,
John

[Chad Perrin]

Post by John Levine
I'm typing this on my Lenovo X200 running 8.1. For the most part it
works quite well and the quality seems similar to my previous IBM X40.
The worst annoyance is that the sound volume is quite low, and I
haven't yet figured out what to tweak to fix that. It has bluetooth
and a fingerprint reader, neither of which I've set up, mostly out of
lack of interest.

Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about sound.

T/X 400+ ThinkPads seem to have relatively quiet sound. I don't know
what's up with that -- and I'm not aware of any way to fix it short of
replacing the physical speakers.

[Craig Butler]

Post by John Levine

Post by Robert Huff
At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were
_the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i
looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went
downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division.

I'm typing this on my Lenovo X200 running 8.1. For the most part it
works quite well and the quality seems similar to my previous IBM X40.
The worst annoyance is that the sound volume is quite low, and I
haven't yet figured out what to tweak to fix that. It has bluetooth
and a fingerprint reader, neither of which I've set up, mostly out of
lack of interest.
R's,
John

Lenovo destroyed thinkpad in the t410i range;
* stupid flimsy/flexi keyboard with massive delete and escape keys
(why ???)
* gobi 2000 3g connectivity, cant get it working on anything none M$
* cut the number of leds, power led no longer turns orange or flashes,
no caps/scroll/num leds (again why ???)
* stupid windows 7 stickers.

Overall not impressed...

/Craig B

[Maciej Milewski]

Post by Craig Butler
Lenovo destroyed thinkpad in the t410i range;
* stupid flimsy/flexi keyboard with massive delete and escape keys
(why ???)

I don't liked it either so I stayed with R400.

Post by Craig Butler
* gobi 2000 3g connectivity, cant get it working on anything none M$

Have you tried gobi_loader and
http://old.nabble.com/-dev-ttyU0---block-at-open-td29876841.html
?

As for the subject - my R400 is working fine and I have no problems with it.
Opposite to when I had Lenovo 3000 series(poor performance,hot palm rest
place, poor technical design: plastic cover too thin and too plastic. It made
my lcd with background artefact of the 5cm circle in the centre of the screen)
I think this line was transformed into the IdeaPad line
Earlier I had Acer's Travelmate 3012 where it has issues with acpi and overall
performance not to mention surprisingly hot keyboard.

-
Maciej

[Chad Perrin]

Post by Robert Huff

Post by Chad Perrin
In my experience, ThinkPads are among the highest quality laptops
on the market.

At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were
_the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i
looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went
downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division.

I think that's a gross exaggeration. I had my fears/doubts about how
well the ThinkPad line would hold its quality after the purchase, but I
kept using it as long as I did not see any reason to stop.

I have not seen a reason to stop.

That is not to say that there were not some hitches. There was some talk
of a lower-quality keyboard (too much flex in it) than in previous models
on one model; I think it was the T500. Lenovo moved quickly to solve the
problem, though, and gave people free replacement keyboards. If there
has been a technical degradation in quality for ThinkPads under Lenovo's
direction, it has been so minute as to not bring it down to the level of
the run of relatively high-end laptops from other major manufacturers, so
I don't see *too* much room to complain.

In the twentyish ThinkPads that I have had, the hardware problems I have
had include:

1. a screen that went out on a twelve year old ThinkPad (I don't recall
the model number)

2. a screen that went out on a T60 this year -- but it was acquired from
a sketchy refurbisher, and refurbished with parts from that refurbisher

3. a P3 600E that a friend of mine managed to fry (she killed electronics
by touching them on a regular basis)

4. a T42p that spontaneously combusted (sorta: I smelled burning plastic
and turned it off, rescued the hard drive, and -- because it was actually
my employer's laptop -- got it replaced under warranty)

5. two batteries died after years of use

That's all the hardware failures I've seen, and in most cases they lasted
longer than any desktop system I've had. The rest of them -- those that
did not suffer hardware failures -- just got handed down to others, one
way or another, when I replaced them. Notice that exactly one of those
was a Lenovo-built laptop. There are currently five Lenovo-built
ThinkPads in my home -- an R52 (just post-transition from IBM to Lenovo),
a T60, an X60 Tablet, a T500, and a T510. Of them, the only one with a
hardware problem is the T60 with a dead screen, which is currently
serving as a desktop system until I get around to setting up the T510 to
cover what the T60 does for me. I'm not in a *huge* hurry, since I can
ssh to the T60 and connect to a tmux session. That's one Lenovo-built
laptop with which I've had any hardware failures, and it's the one that
passed through the hands of a very shady refurbisher on its way to me.

That's not to say there have not been problems since the Lenovo
acquisition, but those problems are related to service rather than
manufacture. For instance, their ordering process is a bit less
sophisticated behind the scenes (they actually use a spreadsheet to track
orders, apparently), and part of their technical service chain of
operations has been outsourced.

On the other hand, IdeaPads are something entirely of Lenovo invention,
as far as I can tell. They're kinda like how ThinkPads might be if they
were made by Dell -- superficially similar in some ways, but with
crappier manufacture quality, fit and finish, reliability, keyboard feel,
et cetera.

In short, if there has been a substantive drop in manufacturing and
hardware quality, I have not seen it. I suppose your mileage may vary.

[Christopher J. Ruwe]

I am typing on a Lenovo Thinkpad R500 running 8-stable, after (a very
high quality) instruction installation by Yamagi Burmeister
(http://www.bsdforen.de/showthread.php?s=e2db5256b283497ca371738ad34b7572&t=24823).

I am very happy with both FreeBSD and my notebook since I switched
(unnerved) from Gentoo Linux to FreeBSD last year.

[Henrik Hudson]

Post by Jorge Biquez
Hello all.
I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd.
I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the
most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed
and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option
at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my
main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there
running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web
development.

Any of the i3 / i5 systems will be using Optimus, even if they
don't state as much, and this is not supported under FreeBSD or
Linux, neither proprietary or FOSS drivers. Some of the higher-end laptops (Lenovo) you can switch off
optimus either in BIOS or a hardware switch, but a lot of those
details are hidden behind marketing. It doesn't matter if it's ATI
or Nvidia, they still route through the Intel HD stack. Some of the
i7 machines don't do this, but they're also space heaters for the
most part.

Basically, the current state of laptop support for non-Windows is
fubarred for probably 6 month to a year or more on the Intel side
and finding AMD laptops that have working graphics drivers under
FreeBSD is hard as well.

Henrik

[Warren Block]

Post by Henrik Hudson
Any of the i3 / i5 systems will be using Optimus, even if they
don't state as much, and this is not supported under FreeBSD or
Linux, neither proprietary or FOSS drivers. Some of the higher-end laptops (Lenovo) you can switch off
optimus either in BIOS or a hardware switch, but a lot of those
details are hidden behind marketing. It doesn't matter if it's ATI
or Nvidia, they still route through the Intel HD stack. Some of the
i7 machines don't do this, but they're also space heaters for the
most part.

There are about 90 notebooks listed on Newegg with ATI/AMD video that
should be supported by the 6.13.2 or 6.14.0 xf86-video-ati drivers:
X1000-series, HD3000-series, and HD4000-series.

72 of them have the Radeon HD4250. All of those machines have AMD
processors. Don't know what is comparable to an i3 or i5, what type of
wireless chipset may be included, or how good the ACPI support is on any
of them. I'd look at Acer, Lenovo, then Dell and HP, maybe Toshiba if
there was nothing else available.

http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/index.html is relevant more to used
machines, but always worth checking. In fact, if you have tried FreeBSD
on a notebook that isn't on there, please create an entry for it.

[James Phillips]

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 04:23:03 +0100
Subject: Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Post by Brian Callahan
and "By using the Software, you accept these terms. If

you do not

Post by Brian Callahan
accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact

the

Post by Brian Callahan
manufacturer or installer to determine its return

policy. You must

Post by Brian Callahan
comply with that policy, which might limit your rights

or require you

Post by Brian Callahan
to return the entire system on which the software is

installed."

Post by Brian Callahan
The major OEMs will say "OK, then you must return the

computer," and

Post by Brian Callahan
you have no option but to comply. This is true for the

USA.
Erm... and this is NOT a joke? Don't get me wrong, I had a
good laugh about this... agreement... but nothing is too
absurd to be true.
In this specific context, does booting a FreeBSD and
removing
the "Windows" from the disk is equivalent to "using the
soft-
ware"? If I understand it correctly, "using" relates to
the
software, not the hardware.

Unfortunately, it is *not* a joke unless it is some kind of elaborite prank. I don't know why people let computer (and peripheral) vendors get away with it. I briefly describe the inserts and stickers included with a "computing console" my sister bought here:
http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55819&start=120#p2001085

<quote>
Anyway, as you may know, the "End-user" does not agree to the Microsoft version of the EULA directly. Rather, each manufacturer uses their own modified EULA that in turn, references the Microsoft EULA. The important thing is that they have changed the language from "by clicking agree..." to "by using the (computer)..." you agree to the license.
</quote>
There is also a seal on the bag holding the computer to that effect.

Just yesterday, made a post complaining about how you can't just buy a "General Purpose" computer anymore:
http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?p=2227317#post2227317

In it I mention how I tried to buy a GNU/Liunx and BSD compatible printer, only to be confronted with:
<quote>
Please read before opening. Opening this package or using the patented cartridge included with this product confirms your acceptance of the following license agreement. The patented Return Program cartridge sold with this product is provided subject to the restriction that it be used only once. Following this initial use, you agree to return the empty cartridge only to Lexmark for remanufacturing and recycling. Lexmark provides a prepaid return label in every replacement cartridge package. If you don't accept these terms, return this unopened package to your point of purchase.</quote>

Patent law is stronger than copyright law. Lexmark may be able to argue you are "manufacturing" printed documents and are subject to the Patent license. INAL either.

After deciding I could not really buy a computer locally, I ordered my latest machine from "Freedom Included, Inc" from in the US.
http://freedomincluded.com/product/lemote-yeeloong/

It is a MIPS-based subnotebook shipping with gNewSense (Linux distro). I don't think it is what the OP was looking for since it won't even run Windows without qemu (3hour+ compile for all targets). It is also a relatively small machine (netbook size). I am also not sure if the wireless would be supported in freeBSD.
***@freedomincluded:~$ lsusb
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 003: ID 0bda:8189 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8187B Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps Network Adapter
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 0bda:0158 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. USB 2.0 multicard reader
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
(Camera not listed)

Regards,

James Phillips

[Brian Callahan]

<snip>

Post by James Phillips
After deciding I could not really buy a computer locally, I ordered my latest machine from "Freedom Included, Inc" from in the US.
http://freedomincluded.com/product/lemote-yeeloong/
It is a MIPS-based subnotebook shipping with gNewSense (Linux distro). I don't think it is what the OP was looking for since it won't even run Windows without qemu (3hour+ compile for all targets). It is also a relatively small machine (netbook size). I am also not sure if the wireless would be supported in freeBSD.
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 003: ID 0bda:8189 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8187B Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps Network Adapter
Bus 004 Device 002: ID 0bda:0158 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. USB 2.0 multicard reader
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
(Camera not listed)
Regards,
James Phillips

I highly doubt the OP wants a Yeeloong. I have two (and cannot
recommend Dan enough, he's a very cool guy) and I love them, both
running OpenBSD. They don't run FreeBSD, kfreebsd-yeeloong
notwithstanding (it was a GSoC project), however the wireless would
work just fine, it's a urtw(4), which has been supported since 8.0.
Actually, everything on the computer *would* work if FreeBSD was
ported to it, but this is a non-trivial task and simply isn't going to
happen until there are people willing to make it happen.
With that said, the Yeeloong is not a good recommendation for anyone,
with the exception of someone who wants to buy a nascent, possibly
(hopefully) emerging architecture, to play with or to port software.
Or someone who cares that much about free software and doesn't care
about the limitations of the architecture. This isn't what the OP
wants.

~Brian